HWUMC

I think this aticle describes the fifi (or aternatively a sky hook) used in the same way as you were talking of using a short quickdraw Christian (Express for our european friends). The advantage to using a skyhook would be that, as mentioned, it can be used directly as a temporary protection and sounds a bit more durable than the fifi.

http://www.psychovertical.com/?thefifihook

Unfortunately, here at least, it is classed as aid (A0) so I guess Kyle can get his own back for all the abuse he has been getting at being an American Aiding B@st@rd!

"fifi" does sound a bit rediculous, doesn't it?

I woudn't want to fall on it...

yeah, doesn't sound tough enough, I agree...

that's why others call it "sky hook" I suppose
sounds really cool...

A fifi and a sky hook aren't quite the same thing. The former is only supposed to hold body weight (plus gear) and designed for aid use where as the 'hook' is actually a part of leader placed protection. . . if you trust it to stay in place!
[At least that's the way I understand it]

Fifi hook



Sky hook






Neither are designed to hold any more than body weight, but sky hooks are ocasionaly used on otherwise unprotectable trad routs.

Fifi hooks are ONLY used as a fast way to attach yourself to a piece of gear.

sky hooks are used to hook over ledges and flakes and can only take a downward pull.

Thanks Kyle, that's cleared it up nicely

Right so who's going to admit to using one - or a quickdraw - in this way? (By the sounds of it you wouldn't be in bad company.)

I've clipped a draw directly to my harness when i didn't have the time/energy to clip the rope. it saved me from decking so i wasn't too bothered about losing the onsight.

I don't see any problem with aiding/french free climbing the crux, or even an entire pitch in the case of hard multipitch, if it means getting safely to the top. I think my second would appreciate not having to spend the time picking up my broken pieces when he could be climbing.

I'd rather be a healthy aid climber than a broken trad climber.

why don't you treat your lever with the same respect?

lol

I was only teasing in my last post. Of course I'd use it if I was in a situation where there was no alternative, like your miltipitch example Kyle, or if falling at that point meant taking a whipper onto dubious gear.

However I don't think I'll be making a habit of having it on my belay loop in my regular climbing at present as I'd prefer to build up to something that dangerous (or not at all ) and personally think that relying on something like that for 'when I'm in the shit" is IMHO not the most sensible way of pushing yourself.

I think the examples in the article I linked were slightly different and a sky hook, as far as I understand, is designed for where there is no other 'normal' gear placement.

ATEOTD it's down to your personal preference, if you're happy trying harder stuff but loosing the onsight then fair play to you. I'd rather take the Beta and see if I can climb it cleanly, when I think I'm up to it . I don't mean to put anyone down but it's not the same thing if you do decide to use something of this nature, aid is aid and trad is trad. (Btw I have a friend who used to refuse to clip in-situ pegs for this reason - not that you'd want to take a fall on a peg but that's another discussion!)

I think you might be looking at it from the wrong perspective. both free and aid climbing have the same goal in mind: the vertical ascent of a geological feature. aid is not as physically hard as free, but the mental demands are the same.

if you think of aid as something only to be used in an emergency then you limit your options on big wall or multi-pitch climbs. when you look at topos of Yosemite many of the routs will have 2 grades, one for free climbing and one for a mix of aid and free climbing. a classic example is Royal Arches, a 16 pitch route in Yosemite. it's easy climbing for the most part, except for a 5.10b (roughly E1 5b) traverse. this can be avoided by using a basic fixed pendulum, downgrading the route to 5.7 (roughly VS 4b) A0. Royal Arches is also the easiest long route in Yosemite, it's just under 500 meters, so it's a good place for potential big wall climbers to start.

so why would you give up a chance to climb a big, classic route just because a small section is above your grade?

that being said, I can't imagine anyone setting off with a fifi hook clipped to their harness if they don't have full intention to aid a portion of the climb. you're only asking for trouble, and you can easily improvise with a short sling and an extra 'biner if necessary.

I did however like the article's idea of using a sky hook while winter climbing, since lower grade winter climbing tends to require more stamina than skill. I don't particularly like using leashes, so having a quick way to clip into the axe would come in handy.

now that i've made my pro-aid argument, i guess i should post the anti-aid argument...


[web]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boQHYBhlOcs[/web]

I loved that video too. Someone who can debate, totally loving his sport but is still able to poke holes in it. (if self confessed reformer!)

I love his first point. Most of the argument is about the top of the aid grades.